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楼主: Francium
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[财经时事] 我反对“让一部分人先富起来” [推广有奖]

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Francium 发表于 2006-7-4 12:16:00 |显示全部楼层 |坛友微信交流群

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BY:小冰哥
2006年7月4日 星期二

FT中文网www.ftchinese.com编辑:

一乍看此题目,不同的读者可能不外乎二种直观反应:一是小冰哥一定是我们的阶级穷兄弟穷哥们,大家一起来“仇富”啊!二是你小子连老人家及党中央的政治口号都敢乱批乱评,估计不是个好鸟,要好好查查根底,是那派来的!其实小冰哥只是觉得在中国现今“让一部分人先富起来”的土壤中,长不出“共同富裕”的果而已!

无论从现在的制度,经济环境,人心人性,固有传统等各个方面来讲,经过了20多年的经济浪潮和思想蜕变,即便是当初朴素的共产主义理想,到今时今日今地也只能沦为空洞的理想共产主义!原先指望通过一部分人先富起来,再来带动更多人共同富裕的美好远景,被无情的现实而冰冷的打碎!

来看看众多的现实:先富起来的一部分人,利用富起来后的各种资源,形成了各自的利益集团,加速掠夺中低收入者手中的财富,如房产暴涨就是最典型的一个例子。

当初也是这些最先富裕起来的人,成为了房产商,成为了房产中介或相关利益群体,成为了房产投机客,可最终他们却成为了这场房产掠夺财富游戏中最凶恶的一股嗜血力量,他们是唯利是图的,他们是充分体现市场经济的,他们不相信莫斯科眼泪的,他们是对的,那什么是错的?

还有如先富起来的小煤老板们,他们何尝一起带煤井下的工人一起走共同富裕的道路,不把他们往更深更黑的煤井下推已经是够仁慈的,而带给他们更多的就是让工人们自己共同赴黄泉。

至于形成部分垄断的很多利益集团,都在强劲的维护及拓展自己的利益,从没有想过共同富裕的问题,哪怕多给员工100元,进老板腰包的至少要是10000元,这就是现实,这就是市场经济,和共同富裕的理论差很远吧!

再看看富人们的人心人性和传统文化。绝大部分的富人们把自己的财产留给了自己的子女,那当然是无可厚非的,几乎中国老百姓都会这么做,这也是中华民族的传统文化。

所以在中国,富人们对财富的捐赠,慈善的行为,交税的义务都成为了可怜的侏儒。当世界上的一富二富在不断积累财富的同时,想到的是不断甚至更多的回报社会,有着悲天悯人的胸怀。

而我们排行榜上的富翁们,却吝啬于此种善举,要么是我辛苦赚来的钱为什么要捐而加以拒绝,要么是在摆出为富不仁嘴脸的同时做施舍状,更有甚者捐款成为了宣传作秀的舞台,避税逃税的工具,捞取政治资本的手段,获得银行更多贷款的荣誉证书,乃至出现作秀完毕赖账的中国特色奇闻。

在中国,众多善良老百姓的善举善款反而成为失学儿童,疾病家庭,受灾百姓的重要支柱之一。而富人们又是怎么花自己的钱的?

有的确实回报了社会,但目前只是一小部分!!更多的是用在花天酒地,声色犬马的享受斗富方面,行贿利器以谋求更多利益方面,甚至造起高高墙垒和请来保镖来对付仇富的要求“共同富裕”的痴心妄想者。

而且这些钱的大部分又都进了公司的支出帐户,减免了税负,这就是富人们的所作所为,所思所想。富人们从没想过要将共同富裕进行到底,面对此现实,再指望靠一部分人先富起来的人来带领大家共同富裕,可能吗?

我想现在是到了要坚决摈弃“让一部分人先富起来”的时候了,改成坚决提倡“打造中国的中产阶级,让大部分的人一起富裕起来”,这也和我们建设和谐社会是相一致的,而且更是建设和谐社会的基础基石!

要做到这点,政府制定的政策和避免利益集团的阻挠加强政策执行是最最关键的!要加大加强教育、医疗、社会保障的投入,让每一个人享有免费基础教育直至高等教育,免费或超低的基础医疗,完善的社会保障的权利,不因以上这些问题而让最广大的中产阶级沦为贫困人口。

而最广大的中产阶级应该有最广泛的群众基础,公务员,教师,各类技术工人,各类服务人员,各类管理人员等等,都应该是其中的主体,收入讲效率,讲能力,讲贡献,但也更要兼顾公平,有差别但差别在可控制范围,彻底改变垄断行业里的暴利和普通员工暴工资暴福利行为,让所有的人享有平等自由的机会是最最重要的!

可想归想,真要制定政策还不知道要什么时候,到时候如何执行又有很多问题!难!在中国难上加难!幸好中国现在有9000亿美元左右的外汇储备,如果分分,至少可以有部分能够还富于民,也算为共同富裕做个好范例!

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关键词:Chinese 大家一起来 FT中文网 中低收入者 共同富裕 先富

To be happy, do things you enjoy and find a higher purpose i
gdgegm 发表于 2006-7-4 15:43:00 |显示全部楼层 |坛友微信交流群

我看关键是如何劫富济贫。但如果不允许有人富起来,政府用来劫富济贫的对象就不好物色了。

欢迎访问博客站点 http://blog.sina.com.cn/u/1241063052

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maslom 发表于 2006-7-4 23:06:00 |显示全部楼层 |坛友微信交流群
楼主不懂发展经济学,邓小平说“一部分人先富起来,共同富裕”。其背后有着丰厚的经济理论沉淀作为支撑的。朗咸平的反对意见的话恰恰反应了朗不懂“世界经济史”的可笑。就经济史而言,发展经济好比支起一个帐篷,那个帐篷顶就是“一部分先富起来的群体”。不懂经济不是问题,关键史别跟着朗瞎起哄!

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liangzhu 发表于 2006-7-5 00:30:00 |显示全部楼层 |坛友微信交流群

这是一个老问题了,可惜这个问题很难把握。只能是相对性的了!让一部分人先富起来的调子,我个人认为是该往下降一截啦!

自由自在,开开心心!

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styler 发表于 2006-7-5 08:39:00 |显示全部楼层 |坛友微信交流群

这种说法是可以解释当前一部分贫富差距的现象,但是这样下去只会使得这个分化越来越大

http://bbs.kaiyuan.de/?fromuid=97417

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Francium 发表于 2006-7-5 15:32:00 |显示全部楼层 |坛友微信交流群
以下是引用maslom在2006-7-4 23:06:00的发言:
楼主不懂发展经济学,邓小平说“一部分人先富起来,共同富裕”。其背后有着丰厚的经济理论沉淀作为支撑的。朗咸平的反对意见的话恰恰反应了朗不懂“世界经济史”的可笑。就经济史而言,发展经济好比支起一个帐篷,那个帐篷顶就是“一部分先富起来的群体”。不懂经济不是问题,关键史别跟着朗瞎起哄!

经济是个大课题,我自认不懂。在引文之前,我对于朗的反对意见知之甚少,更不是附和他。只是从生活的经验和感受觉得作者反映的问题准确,有力度,也提到,分析了一些社会原因。 我经济学开始学习不到两年,还没有接触到太多发展经济学的内容,但是如果您可以提供些“丰厚的经济理论沉淀”的话,那我会很感激,也一定学习。

即使了解经济不多,我也觉得“让一部分人先富起来”也是可行和有意义的。但是我想作者在文中提出的问题不是禁止一部分人先富起来,而是再说有这个政策而引起的现在的问题。一部分人富起来已经是事实了,大部分人仍然穷是现在应该解决的问题。“让一部分人先富起来”是旧政策,现在应该处理的是由此引起的现在的和将来可能的问题。

只是顺便提一下,世界级富豪Warren E. Buffett在本月份将捐出个人财富的85%,也就是374亿美元给五个基金会,其中310亿将捐给盖茨基金。此次捐款是历史上最大笔的个人捐款。以下是Fortune Magazine 的报道和个人访谈,希望这个举动和他的思想能够让国内的富人也开始思考一些基本的问题,比如财富的意义,或者是否该把财富都留给子女等,下面的报道能够提供一些想法。

By Carol J. Loomis, FORTUNE editor-at-large


NEW YORK (FORTUNE Magazine) - We were sitting in a Manhattan living room on a spring afternoon, and Warren Buffett had a Cherry Coke in his hand as usual. But this unremarkable scene was about to take a surprising turn.

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"Brace yourself," Buffett warned with a grin. He then described a momentous change in his thinking. Within months, he said, he would begin to give away his Berkshire Hathaway fortune, then and now worth well over $40 billion.

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From the FORTUNE archives
If you do, you may not be doing them a favor. But if you want to, there are sensible ways of passing on what you have without depriving the kids of a feeling of achievement. (more)
As part of his plan, Warren Buffett is sending letters to each of the five foundations that will be receiving his gifts. The letters may be found on Berkshire Hathaway's Web site. (See the letters)

This news was indeed stunning. Buffett, 75, has for decades said his wealth would go to philanthropy but has just as steadily indicated the handoff would be made at his death. Now he was revising the timetable.

"I know what I want to do," he said, "and it makes sense to get going." On that spring day his plan was uncertain in some of its details; today it is essentially complete. And it is typical Buffett: rational, original, breaking the mold of how extremely rich people donate money.

Buffett has pledged to gradually give 85% of his Berkshire stock to five foundations. A dominant five-sixths of the shares will go to the world's largest philanthropic organization, the $30 billion Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation, whose principals are close friends of Buffett's (a connection that began in 1991, when a mutual friend introduced Buffett and Bill Gates).

The Gateses credit Buffett, says Bill, with having "inspired" their thinking about giving money back to society. Their foundation's activities, internationally famous, are focused on world health -- fighting such diseases as malaria, HIV/AIDS, and tuberculosis -- and on improving U.S. libraries and high schools.

Up to now, the two Gateses have been the only trustees of their foundation. But as his plan gets underway, Buffett will be joining them. Bill Gates says he and his wife are "thrilled" by that and by knowing that Buffett's money will allow the foundation to "both deepen and accelerate" its work. "The generosity and trust Warren has shown," Gates adds, "is incredible." Beginning in July and continuing every year, Buffett will give a set, annually declining number of Berkshire B shares - starting with 602,500 in 2006 and then decreasing by 5% per year - to the five foundations. The gifts to the Gates foundation will be made either by Buffett or through his estate as long as at least one of the pair -- Bill, now 50, or Melinda, 41 -- is active in it.

Berkshire's price on the date of each gift will determine its dollar value. Were B shares, for example, to be $3,071 in July - that was their close on June 23 - Buffett's 2006 gift to the foundation, 500,000 shares, would be worth about $1.5 billion. With so much new money to handle, the foundation will be given two years to resize its operations. But it will then be required by the terms of Buffett's gift to annually spend the dollar amount of his contributions as well as those it is already making from its existing assets. At the moment, $1.5 billion would roughly double the foundation's yearly benefactions. But the $1.5 billion has little relevance to the value of Buffett's future gifts, since their amount will depend on the price of Berkshire's stock when they are made. If the stock rises yearly, on average, by even a modest amount - say, 6% - the gain will more than offset the annual 5% decline in the number of shares given. Under those circumstances, the value of Buffett's contributions will rise.

Buffett himself thinks that will happen. Or to state that proposition more directly: He believes the price of Berkshire, and with it the dollar size of the contributions, will trend upward - perhaps over time increasing substantially. The other foundation gifts that Buffett is making will also occur annually and start in July. At Berkshire's current price, the combined 2006 total of these gifts will be $315 million. The contributions will go to foundations headed by Buffett's three children, Susan, Howard, and Peter, and to the Susan Thompson Buffett Foundation.

This last foundation was for 40 years known simply as the Buffett Foundation and was recently renamed in honor of Buffett's late wife, Susie, who died in 2004, at 72, after a stroke. Her will bestows about $2.5 billion on the foundation, to which her husband's gifts will be added. The foundation has mainly focused on reproductive health, family planning, and pro-choice causes, and on preventing the spread of nuclear weapons. Counting the gifts to all five foundations, Buffett will gradually but sharply reduce his holdings of Berkshire (Charts) stock. He now owns close to 31% of the company-worth nearly $44 billion in late June - and that proportion will ultimately be cut to around 5%. Sticking to his long-term intentions, Buffett says the residual 5%, worth about $6.8 billion today, will in time go for philanthropy also, perhaps in his lifetime and, if not, at his death.

Because the value of Buffett's gifts are tied to a future, unknowable price of Berkshire, there is no way to put a total dollar value on them. But the number of shares earmarked to be given have a huge value today: $37 billion.

That alone would be the largest philanthropic gift in history. And if Buffett is right in thinking that Berkshire's price will trend upward, the eventual amount given could far exceed that figure.

So that's the plan. What follows is a conversation in which Buffett explains how he moved away from his original thinking and decided to begin giving now. The questioner is yours truly, FORTUNE editor-at-large Carol Loomis. I am a longtime friend of Buffett's, a Berkshire Hathaway shareholder, and a director of the Susan Thompson Buffett Foundation

To be happy, do things you enjoy and find a higher purpose i

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Francium 发表于 2006-7-5 16:04:00 |显示全部楼层 |坛友微信交流群

In that, we agreed with Andrew Carnegie, who said that huge fortunes that flow in large part from society should in large part be returned to society. In my case, the ability to allocate capital would have had little utility unless I lived in a rich, populous country in which enormous quantities of marketable securities were traded and were sometimes ridiculously mispriced. And fortunately for me, that describes the U.S. in the second half of the last century.

Certainly neither Susie nor I ever thought we should pass huge amounts of money along to our children. Our kids are great. But I would argue that when your kids have all the advantages anyway, in terms of how they grow up and the opportunities they have for education, including what they learn at home - I would say it's neither right nor rational to be flooding them with money.

The longer answer is that over the years I had gotten to know Bill and Melinda Gates well, spent a lot of time with them having fun and, way beyond that, had grown to admire what they were doing with their foundation. I've seen them give presentations about its programs, and I'm always amazed at the enthusiasm and passion and energy they're pouring into their work. They've gone at it, you might say, with both head and heart.

Bill reads many thousands of pages annually keeping up with medical advances and means of delivering help. Melinda, often with Bill along, travels the world looking at how well good intentions are being converted into good results. Life has dealt a terrible hand to literally billions of people around the world, and Bill and Melinda are bent on reducing that inequity to the extent they possibly can.

A very rich person should leave his kids enough to do anything but not enough to do nothing

To be happy, do things you enjoy and find a higher purpose i

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Francium 发表于 2006-7-5 16:07:00 |显示全部楼层 |坛友微信交流群
To be happy, do things you enjoy and find a higher purpose i

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lyz5184 发表于 2006-7-8 11:01:00 |显示全部楼层 |坛友微信交流群

我认为富应该具有社会性,特别对于我们中国在时间上和空间上存在系统深度和广度的国家,欧美富人在财富的聚和济上具有全球性,做为社会性财富的管理者,自然会得到人们的尊敬,富人越来越来富,并从中得到感悟。这也应该是合理化理论的初衷模型,至于我们国家的富人和管理者具有私人性还是具有社会性,是为荣誉而战,还是上帝具有良知的臣民,还是有本质恐惧的弱者思想,应很明了。

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