请分析，劳动信贷制企业与资本信贷制企业，谁胜谁负？

醒思木 发表于 2017-1-6 00:53
1，(怎么借还)借贷与还贷：按社平工资借还。例：借款时一个人一年的社平工资为10万元，某人借款10万，若干 ...

The 1996 U.S. Welfare Reform（1996年美国福利改革）
From the 1930s until 1996, poor families could
also beneft from a federal cash-assistance program
known as Aid to Families with Dependent Children.
This was an entitlement program, meaning that anyone
who met certain qualifcations could receive the benefts as a matter of law.
President Bill Clinton had run on a platform
of “reforming welfare as we know it.” In 1996, he
teamed up with a Republican Congress and completely changed the rules for cash assistance. The old
program was replaced by the Temporary Assistance
for Needy Families (TANF) program, which removed
the federal entitlement to cash benefts and turned
the program over to the 50 states.
萨缪尔森经济学335页，这是17章一小段。

The major provisions of the new program were
the following:
● The primary responsibility for the income support of poor people was turned over to state and
local governments. This replaced the earlier system in which the federal government picked up
most of the costs of income support.
● The entitlement for federal cash assistance under
TANF was removed.
● Each family is subject to a lifetime limit of 5 years
of benefts under the federally supported program. After 5 years, TANF funds can no longer
be used to support the family, even if it moves to
a new state or has been off the welfare rolls for a
number of years.
● Adults in the program must engage in work activities after 2 years of benefts.
● Legal immigrants may be excluded from TANF
benefts.
● Other major low-income-support programs were
largely unchanged.
Appraisal. The 1996 welfare reform was a major
change in social policy. One aspect is the effect on
labor markets. To the extent that the loss of benefts
forces people to seek work, this will increase the
supply of relatively uneducated and unskilled labor.
This increased supply will tend to lower wages of the
lowest-paid workers and increase income inequality.
(This effect operates much the same way that the
sharp increase in immigration has contributed to
lowering of wages of the unskilled in the last three
decades.) If the equilibrium wages of some workers
are driven down below the minimum wage, this may
also lead to an increase in the unemployment rate of
these groups.
One important feature of the new law, emphasized by social and economic conservatives, was the
transfer of responsibility for income support for poor
families to the states. The idea behind this change
was that states would reverse the century-long trend
of increasing generosity of welfare programs. Critics
of this transfer believed that placing decision-making
responsibility in the states would give strong incentives for states to trim welfare benefts to reduce the
costs and the fscal burden of the low-income population. This has been called a “race to the bottom”
in which the equilibrium is for states to have the lowest-possible benefts and drive low-income households elsewhere.
The impacts of the expanded EITC and 1996 welfare reform have surprised most analysts. Among the
major impacts have been the following:
● The fall in welfare caseloads has been unprecedented, widespread, and continuous. From 1995
to 2008, the number of households on welfare has
fallen by more than 70 percent. While a decline was
expected, its size and duration were surprising.
● There was a large increase in the labor-force participation rate of single women with young children. The combination of economic incentives
and a strong labor market was successful in pushing women off welfare and into jobs.

lzguo568 发表于 2017-1-6 08:52
The 1996 U.S. Welfare Reform（1996年美国福利改革）
From the 1930s until 1996, poor families could ...

翻译成中文吧…了解了解

clm0600 发表于 2017-1-6 09:10
你自己瞎编的东西，你爱怎么说就怎么说吧，反正你们陶本最爱搞文字游戏。

文革期间被《乌托邦》们批判为…反马克思主义…反革命…
而今…你却说陶本的“劳动等价交换”是马克思主义的劳动价值论被我们改成“劳动等价交换”的…
你与文革期间批判我们的《乌托邦》们一样…完全不了解陶本

clm0600 发表于 2017-1-6 10:28
你说你们奉行陶本私有制，可是，私有制就得保证我的钱我自己随意处置。

比如我有钱，我就开银行，吸收 ...

你说你们奉行陶本私有制，可是，私有制就得保证我的钱我自己随意处置。
比如我有钱，我就开银行，吸收其他人私有的钱储蓄，然后放贷赚钱。
或者我就开企业，雇佣劳动者，然后赚钱。
这些你都管不着吧？你要管，我就不同意你管，你怎么办？
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你以上所说的…都是受陶本社会法律保护之合法且支持鼓励的民营经济活…陶本社会法律不允许任何人以任何理由干涉…

你说你要把钱贷给穷哥们，开个劳动信贷银行，请问有钱人不搭理你总可以吧？有钱人都不出资，普通老百姓那点儿钱也愿意存进私人正常银行（人家贷款有抵押品，运营风险低，给的利息高；你的银行那样穷折腾，简直就是典型的次贷），你怎么办？你开的起来吗？
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从这上面你所说的文意来看…你没有弄明白陶本社会的“生产工具类资产劳动信贷制度”…这个信贷制度并不是陶本社会民间的慈善之信贷…而是陶本社会为促进经济饱和发展的国家信贷制度…只在为陶本社会里的…名下无资产的劳动者或申请放弃继承长辈财产权的新生代劳动就业者之劳动就业所必需的劳动生产工具而提供无资产抵押贷款或称劳动抵押贷款，使之能够获得与有产者同等的劳动收入…从而满足其正常(与有产者同等)的消费需求(这是陶本社会经济饱和发展之源泉所在)…

…注：陶本社会经济饱和发展…在陶本人看来，资本主义社会经济之所发生商品经济危机而并不能获得饱和发展…原因就在于名下无资产者有消费需求而无消费能力(需求购买力)…即：名下无资产者之劳动创造的价值被异化而导致其劳动收入低于有资产者的劳动收入…丧失了需求购买力。

“生产工具类资产劳动信贷制度”是陶本社会从国家信贷总额里拿出一小部分(30%)来解决名下无资产之劳动者的劳动就业及劳动收入保障的社会制度，国家信贷总额里的大部分(70%)是商业信贷…其利率同民营商业银行一样由供求决定…

你还可能没弄明白的是…陶本社会的“生产工具类资产劳动信贷制度”之作为社会制度的作用…其作用就是天长地久地促进陶本社会里的无产者向有产者发展…其终极目标是将无产者消除干净…
…
没有被剥削者…就没有剥削。
陶本社会的“生产工具类资产劳动信贷制度”的作用就是把无产者转变成有产者
陶本社会的终极理想就是其社会里的所有社会成员都是有产者…没有一个无产者…

最后恼羞成怒的陶本人，就理解马克思为啥要那样了。
…不慕荣利的陶本人…还有什么值得我们恼羞成怒的呢？马克思主义在我们这里…只是儿学之论尔

clm0600 发表于 2017-1-6 22:02
你把钱借给无产者，又不是送给无产者，无产者还是无产者。

    回…qi509 发表于 2015-7-21 23:23…说：“ 肯定是资本信贷企业赢。”

我的见解，肯定是劳动信贷企业赢。
分三种情况讨论：
一是，初期(五年左右)在占据市场竞争优势时，企业年盈利20%，劳动信贷制企业和资本信贷制企业都收回成本，两类企业都会办下去，难分胜负。
==============================================
请看主帖：在这五年左右的行业赢利时期…劳动信贷制企业收回成本…还清了劳动信贷…其企业也就变成了劳动所有制企业…而不再是劳动信贷制企业，也就是说，原来的劳动信贷制企业之职工…已从无产者转变成有产者了。劳动所有制企业的企业资产也就取得了“资产抵押贷款”的资格…

不知道我这样的解释…在你那里…解不解释得通…？

clm0600 发表于 2017-1-7 09:41
这都是你的凭空想象，你简直就是什么都不懂。
1、你怎么知道穷哥们建立企业的时候，正好是市场竞争优势的 ...

1、你怎么知道穷哥们建立企业的时候，正好是市场竞争优势的时候？说不定它刚建成就落后了！
2、神马项目当年贷款当年就盈利20%？你以为是弄一个街头煎饼摊儿吗？建一座工厂没有三五年你都无法投产！
3、就算是从投产开始算，你以为挣钱这么容易吗？五年回本，这是我今年听到的第一个大笑话。
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回1：在陶本人看来…在资本所有制企业的社会里…所有的行业都是盈利、持平、亏损之三种状态循环的过程…无产者只是无产…并不是无脑…自然会预计好什么时候创建企业…恰好盈利期投产…况还有行业工会为其出谋划策指导企业筹建…且召已知“生产工具类资产劳动信贷制度”可是陶本社会的国家信贷制度…
回2：何来“当年贷款当年就盈利20%”之说呢？只说过“初期(五年左右)在占据市场竞争优势时”…这里的“初期”无疑就是投产的初期呀！…你此言……何义呢？
回3：在人类科学史上…被视为笑话的…多的是，你既然已了解“从上表可知,投资回收期一般在10年左右”…也就是说，即便是商业贷款企业…投资回收期也只需要10年左右，那国家为无产者提供的“劳动信贷”五年回本…有什么可大笑话的呢？…商业贷款企业需要偿还10%年利息…则年盈利10%…故10年收回投资…而无产者“劳动信贷”的利息为零…故年盈利为20%…只需5年就可收回投资……这为什么是你“今年听到的第一个大笑话”呢？…

clm0600 发表于 2017-1-7 22:24
自然会预计好什么时候创建企业…恰好盈利期投产…况还有行业工会为其出谋划策指导企业筹建…且召已知“生 ...

陶本要建立的是 生产工具类资产劳动信贷的社会制度…旨在促进生产工具类资产之劳动所有制企业的产生和发展…从而使其社会里的无产者转变成为有产者…你说这是脱裤子放屁…谁奈你何呢？

clm0600 发表于 2017-1-8 14:23
本来就是如此嘛，你们这种制度与公有制相比，并没有什么区别啊。
你们号称要私有，结果信贷却由国家操纵 ...

算你很…你就不要在我面前…胸怀明白装糊涂了吧！

clm0600 发表于 2017-1-8 22:55
你好好算计一下：
无产者最后有产了，可是这个产是什么产呢？只能让自己得到80%工资的老旧落后工厂，这种 ...

请你说来听听…你是怎么算计得出…“无产者最后有产了…只能让自己得到80%工资的老旧落后工厂…这种工厂的价值是负的…有脑子的人，宁可抛弃这家工厂，自己去找个能得到100%工资的工厂去打工”…这么个结论的呢？

还请你谈谈…为什么在我们“陶本的制度之下，到处都是维持老旧落后工厂的负产者，哈哈！这倒是跟改革开放前的国企有异曲同工之妙啊。设备陈旧，发不下工资，哈哈！ ”的呢？