楼主: mdverygood
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请教各位金融学及英语高手 [推广有奖]

11
zhangibt 发表于 2009-6-17 20:50:45
帮你加个高亮。新版字小,这么多我看着有点晕啊...没看太细。
另说说我的,不太懂的,不一定对哦。
1、第一句那个,我觉得是和.....状况不同。因为介词用的on不是of。语境不一样的。
2、我觉得后面那个either scenario和前面的scenario是指的一类东西。因为英语的指代如果跨的较远就必须说明白。而且这样理解着比较顺。很多实例表明无论是在单边优势还是双方公平交易的情况下,商品市场都能很好发挥作用。
不太顺,不过我也写不顺,呵呵。
等待高人ing...

12
老鱼父 发表于 2009-6-17 23:02:31
mdverygood 发表于 2009-6-17 18:54
jennyyuejin 您好,对于这个句子我的确有些过分关注了,不过这也是在下的职业使然呀。很多client的英文都相当好,我的任何理解偏差都有可能被发现。再者,我确实是想一次性把这个问题彻底弄清楚,以便今后再遇到时心里有个底。(此处这个表达可能不影响大局,但其它时候就不一定了。其实我对这句话的意思也比较有把握了,我觉得人大论坛上高手比较多,可能比较可靠,想看有没有人能给个非常确定且有根据的解释,来印证或改变我的观点,即使没有,我也可能得到一些其它方面的启发。)


老鱼父元老您好,先谢过您的热心指点,不过恕我冒犯,就"heads i win and tails you lose" 而言,在我查的资料及根据此表达在我所看到的文章中的意思,"heads i win and tails you lose" 都没有“泛指争辩的双方没有绝对的对错”的意思,是否您把这句话看成"heads i win and tails you win"了? (参见附注一)

不过还有一种理解:

这是个基金的market comment嘛,把“the conclusions from many seem to 中的many理解为基金公司或交易员,意即由于基金公司拿投资者的钱去投资,所以对他们来说这是一个类似"heads-I-win-and-tails-you-lose"的情况(赚了基金公司拿管理费,赔了投资者的倒霉),这样一来,许多基金公司或交易员都轻率的认为两种主义都会让商品市场表现良好(这样理解是有根据的,下面有economist网站的参考,见附二),这其实是在和这家基金公司自己做比较,见下文的“A pause is warranted here. A groundswell of opinion that says markets will go up come what may, should be cause for concern. At this point, we have no highly held conviction about the exact detail of what may occur during the next several years, ”,即强调自己并不对未来轻率下结论,认为“markets will go up come what may, should be cause for concern”体现该基金比较谨慎负责。



即在以上理解中,"heads-I-win-and-tails-you-lose" 的意思没有什么疑问,但它描述的不是投资者面对商品市场未来的所处的境况,而指的是市场上基金运作的一种现状,不过我觉得这个理解较大胆,有些发挥过头了。有兴趣的可以探讨一下。




附一
Heads or Tails
An expression used when tossing a coin to decide between two alternatives, as in Let's just flip a coin to decide who pays--do you want heads or tails? Each person involved chooses a different side of the coin, either "heads" or "tails," and whichever side lands facing up is considered the winner. This usage, dating from the late 1600s, is sometimes turned into Heads I win, tails you lose, meaning "I win no matter what," which probably originated in an attempt to deceive someone. [Mid-1800s]http://www.answers.com/topic/heads-or-tails

附二
economist网站上的一段话:
The two great cheatsThe first charge is that the rich created a new form of heads-I-win-tails-you-lose capitalism. Traders and fund managers got huge rewards for speculating with other people’s money, but when they failed the parent company, the client and ultimately the taxpayer had to pay the bill. Monetary policy contributed to this asymmetry of risk: when markets faltered central banks usually rescued them by cutting interest rates.http://www.economist.com/displayStory.cfm?story_id=13405314
(网上的参考译文:富人们之所以富,是因为他们创造了一套 heads I win, tails you lose 的资本制度。交易员与基金管理者用别人的钱来投资,从而为自己攫取巨大的报酬。而当他们投资失败时,就要母公司或客户,最终直至纳税人来买单。货币政策进一步助长了这种不对称的危险:当市场需求疲软时央行就会减息来拯救它们)
mdverygood:

你的理解是对的, 我自己读到heads, tails 就与掷硬币本能的联系上了. 没有花心思去追根究底.

读了你的回贴后才google了一下heads I win, tails you lose 的出处: in Croker Papers, iii 59 (1884),....we shall play at a game which a sharper once played with a dupe, intituled, " Heads I win, and tails you lose. ... http://books.google.com/books?id=7PMZJqSR4sAC&pg=PA272&lpg=PA272&dq=%22heads+i+win+and+tails+you+lose%22+mean+%3F&source=bl&ots=ARgsKARyQ6&sig=HR5eO60DkTREZJuca0j_YgWmLUY&hl=en&ei=aPw4SoiaOI3KM_jV9ZIN&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=5

但以此指市场上基金运作的一种现状--sharper or cheater, 是太过分了, 抑人扬己, 有同行相欺之嫌.
沧浪之水清兮可以濯我缨,沧浪之水浊兮可以濯我足。

13
vcvcvc 发表于 2009-6-18 00:09:44
head I win tail you lose意思是扔钱币,人头我赢,字你输,也就是无论怎样我都赢。

14
jennyyuejin 发表于 2009-6-18 02:02:19
楼主态度很认真。楼主加油!!!

不过楼主水平肯定没问题,不用太担心了

15
mdverygood 发表于 2009-6-18 23:23:00
再次感谢大家的关注和指教:

Zhangibt版主您好,非常感谢您的细心和体贴。对于您的观点,我有以下看法:

1.个人感觉用哪个介词是表明的是variation后面的词组的搭配关系,意思上不会有什么改变,而且我觉得一个单词的意思不单要从语法来看,还要从上下文来看。还有不知您有未看到,variation有个意思是Something slightly different from another of the same type,若是此意思,那就是说虽然不完全一样,有些变化,但本质是一样的,换汤不换药,是变相的XXX

2.scenario应从上下文意思来看,“因为英语的指代如果跨的较远就必须说明白”——个人经验告诉我这其实是不一定的,而且这里的上下文也比较明显了。我给的几段话几乎都是在拿凯恩斯主义和货币主义作比较,我们讨论的那句话后面紧接着就作了个对比,而前面也是在说两种主义争论的影响,因此either scenario应指的两种主义下的各自情况,其实我在回复fffadeecec1学友时已就此做了解释,不过可能中英文夹杂,让人看着头疼。您的解释“无论是在单边优势还是双方公平交易的情况下,商品市场都能很好发挥作用”中,突然冒出个“单边优势还是双方公平交易”让人觉得和文章有些脱节,比较突兀——这只不过是我的浅见,请批判接受。这篇文章已经有几天了,我想把文章的前一相关部分粘出来应不会有什么问题了,可能会有助理解。若有兴趣可以看一下附一。


老鱼父教授您好:
1.
您居然把这句话的出处都查出来了,估计这也用去了您一定的私人时间,太感谢了。还有,您找到的那本词典相当的好,我收藏下了,非常感谢。

2.
你说理解为基金的现状太过分了,我也觉得确实如此,应该还是按最常规的方式理解,所以并未认定这个意见。我把这种理解说出来是想提供另一种思路,开阔一下思维。


Jennyyuejin学友您好,感谢您的持续关注—— I would have to say ,in a nutshell, that knowledge is boundless while life is short

也谢谢vcvcvc的关注。


附一
We have read with enormous interest (and it must be said, no small amount of amusement) the recent intellectual battle between Keynesians and monetarists which has taken place on the pages of the Financial Times, and on internet blogs. Paul Krugman, Martin Wolf, Niall Ferguson, and John Taylor have conducted what has appeared to be a heated debate centring on the longer-term effects of current policy initiatives, specifically fiscal stimulus. A thorough discussion of both sides goes well beyond the remit of our commentary, but the argument might be summed up with the two questions: "Given current plans for fiscal stimulus, how will debt service payments be managed in the future?" and "How might the current behaviour of the bond market be explained?"

Answers to both are many and varied. One school of thought is that, in the longer-term, the debt service resulting from the current fiscal stimulus can be managed only by monetisation, resulting in unexpectedly high levels of inflation and a bond market rout – something which is now beginning to be priced into yields. In addition, the dollar would be abandoned as the reserve currency of choice. Another is that there is no viable alternative to the current Keynesian stimulus plans, as evidenced by ample historical precedent from the New Deal and the Great Depression. Policy makers will eventually reverse course and tighten policy, but not yet - the recent moves in treasury yields are indicative of a return to more benign economic conditions after the deflation scare of late 2008.
………



16
mdverygood 发表于 2009-6-18 23:46:51
为了感谢大家的关注,我决定送大家几件礼物(都是我珍藏的好东西,不过这是我第一次上传,不知能否成功):

第一件:一本在香港金融管理局网站下的《香港货币银行用语汇编》,其中不光是简单的列出中文的对应英文(或相反),还有具体解释。不过是繁体的,不知大家是否看得习惯。授人以鱼,不如授之以渔,我把下载网址告诉大家,有更新的时候可以去下新版本: http://www.info.gov.hk/hkma/chi/public/index.htm
香港货币银行用语汇编.rar (2.17 MB)

第二件:高盛金融词汇英汉详解词典(100页),用Excel格式编好的,有解释。
高盛金融词汇英汉详解词典(100页).xls (288 KB)

不过即便是免费的,新论坛都好像会扣钱的。
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17
mdverygood 发表于 2009-6-19 18:20:49
自己顶一下,防沉。

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