楼主: fujo11
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[学科前沿] 哪位网友能从词源学角度研究一下李嘉图的“物化劳动”的来源 [推广有奖]

21
_LK_一生所爱 发表于 2010-7-28 14:07:38
其实这虽然不是正确的观点 不过还是很有意义的也很有意思

我看过一点点柏拉图 好像常常都是说神啊什么的

请问你是如何看待柏拉图的?这个是柏拉图的观点吗?

22
fujo11 在职认证  发表于 2010-8-25 19:27:44
在资本主义商品经济中,机器等一年内不用置换的物品首先是一种物质客观存在,当它具有资本主义生产职能性质时,它又取得了一种非物质性的社会客观存在,我们可以把这种只在资本主义商品经济中才存在的非物质性的社会客观存在定义成资本的存在,这种资本的存在,是一种特殊的价值存在,这种价值存在可以带来利润,而且由于它的固定性,可以在多年中不断地带来利润。
   如果我们象李嘉图那样,把这种只在资本主义商品经济中存在的既具有固定性的物质客观存在又具有非物质性的社会客观存在定义成“物化劳动”,我们会得到什么结果呢?首先,它混淆了固定资本的物质性客观存在和人类劳动的非物质性,人类劳动无论如何也不是一种物质性客观存在,它最多是一种物质性客观存在的有目的性的运动形式;其次,“物化劳动”,掩盖了资本主义商品经济生产关系的实质。确切地讲,李嘉图根本没有意识到,他把固定资本定义成“物化劳动”,只是为了自圆其劳动价值论学说,但他根本不理解,机器等设备,只有在资本主义商品经济中,才具有固定资本的职能。最后,通过“物化劳动”这个概念,商品经济一般和资本主义商品经济就混为一体,分不清楚了。
客观性是科学存在的前提

23
fujo11 在职认证  发表于 2010-9-2 14:46:55
李嘉图的这种观念,不仅误导了马克思,而且还贻害了凯恩斯。
以下摘自《通论》第四编第16章:
                                                                             II
It is much preferable to speak of capital as having a yield over the course of its life in excess of its original cost, than as being productive. For the only reason why an asset offers a prospect of yielding during its life services having an aggregate value greater than its initial supply price is because it is scarce; and it is kept scarce because of the competition of the rate of interest on money. If capital becomes less scarce, the excess yield will diminish, without its having become less productive--at least in the physical sense.
与其说资本是生产性的,还不如说资本在其使用寿命中会有一笔超过其原有成本的收益。为什么一项资产在其使用寿命中能提供一种服务,从而使其总价值大于它的原有供给价格的唯一理由在于:它之所以能维持稀缺性,是因为要获取购买资本品的货币要支付利息。如果资本的稀缺性变得较少,超额收益就会减少,而它的生产性并没有减少——至少在实物意义上是如此。
I sympathise, therefore, with the pre-classical doctrine that everything is produced by labour, aided by what used to be called art and is now called technique, by natural resources which are free or cost a rent according to their scarcity or abundance, and by the results of past labour, embodied in assets, which also command a price according to their scarcity or abundance. It is preferable to regard labour, including, of course, the personal services of the entrepreneur and his assistants, as the sole factor of production, operating in a given environment of technique, natural resources, capital equipment and effective demand. This partly explains why we have been able to take the unit of labour as the sole physical unit which we require in our economic system, apart from units of money and of time.
因此,我欣赏古典学派以前的理论,即:每一件物品都是由劳动生产出来的,再辅之以:(1)过去被称为工艺,现在叫做技术的事物;(2)自由取用的或者按照它们的稀缺或丰裕程度而支付代价或者租金的自然资源;以及(3)体现在资产中的并且根据其稀缺或丰裕程度而支付代价的过去劳动的成果。所以,最好是把企业家及其助手们的个人服务包括在劳动中,作为一种独立的生产要素,在既定的技术环境、自然资源、资本设备以及有效需求的条件下发挥作用。这可以部分地解释,为什么在货币单位和时间单位之外,我们把劳动单位作为我们经济体系中所要求的唯一实物单位。
It is true that some lengthy or roundabout processes are physically efficient. But so are some short processes. Lengthy processes are not physically efficient because they are long. Some, probably most, lengthy processes would be physically very inefficient, for there are such things as spoiling or wasting with time. With a given labour force there is a definite limit to the quantity of labour embodied in roundabout processes which can be used to advantage.
在某些周期较长或迂回的生产过程中,的确会显示出物质上的效率。但是,某些周期较短的生产过程也如此。有些生产过程并不是因为生产周期长而具有物质上的效率,有些(或许是多数)生产周期长的生产过程甚至缺乏物质上的效率,因为时间长而造成损坏或者浪费。在劳动力的数量给定时,体现在能够被用于有益于迂回生产过程的劳动数量是有限的。
客观性是科学存在的前提

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