[讨论]信用卡是金錢嗎?

以下是引用waterhorse在2008-2-12 3:35:00的发言：

Credit card is not part of the money. It is a method to defer payment; eventually cardholders need to pay the "balances", which are the part of the money.

You have to remember how the money is defined first. Money measures such as M1, M2, M3, L are all based on the definitions.

What is M1, M2, M3?  

If you are talking about 'money demand', then, you need to type as M_d,1...

If you are talking about 'money supply', then, you need to type as M_s,1...

What is L?

The symbol 'L' can be regarded as labour force, Labour demand, & Labour supply, what do you mean?

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If you mean, these symbols come from other version in some books, That's fine. If it is your own product, I am sure, no one will understand what you are talking about.

[此贴子已经被作者于2008-2-12 7:14:12编辑过]

以下是引用waterhorse在2008-2-12 3:35:00的发言：Credit card is not part of the money. It is a method to defer payment; eventually cardholders need to pay the "balances", which are the part of the money.

Of course, you could say credit card is not  part of money, however, the reasons you presents might not be reasonable. 

Money is also a payment method.  Besides, commercial banks create money by loans (to be repayed eventually).

This is regarding 11th floor's comments:

Please check any introductory macro or money and banking textbook's definitions about M1, M2 or M3. You can also check www.bea.gov webiste. I did not invent these symbols.

By the way, money demand can "not" be "measured". We use money supply to represnt money demand assuming an equilibrium exists in the money market. There are hugh research on the estimation of money demand issues in the literature. 

I do not understand why this question "credit card is money?" raised such debates. Can you use your credit card to buy things forever without paying back your liability? Commerical banks that issue credit crads must be idiots.

 

以下是引用waterhorse在2008-2-13 2:56:00的发言：Can you use your credit card to buy things forever without paying back your liability? Commerical banks that issue credit crads must be idiots.

As you said, M0, M1, M2, …, are all measures of money supply. Would you please tell how M1/M2 is created?

Does M1/M2 emerge without commercial banks' loans? Loans also  are to be repayed in future.

以下是引用waterhorse在2008-2-13 2:56:00的发言：I do not understand why this question "credit card is money?" raised such debates. Can you use your credit card to buy things forever without paying back your liability? Commerical banks that issue credit crads must be idiots.

I could agree that credit card is not money, but I could not agree with your reasons.

以下是引用waterhorse在2008-2-13 2:56:00的发言：

This is regarding 11th floor's comments:

Please check any introductory macro or money and banking textbook's definitions about M1, M2 or M3. You can also check www.bea.gov webiste. I did not invent these symbols.

By the way, money demand can "not" be "measured". We use money supply to represnt money demand assuming an equilibrium exists in the money market. There are hugh research on the estimation of money demand issues in the literature. 

I do not understand why this question "credit card is money?" raised such debates. Can you use your credit card to buy things forever without paying back your liability? Commerical banks that issue credit crads must be idiots.

 

Dear Waterhouse,

Please read all the following information carefully.

Via checking the Mankiw's testbook ----- (macro-economics, fourth edition), at page 160, Yes, I fully understood what you are talking about. Yeah, you do not invent these words. And they all come from authorized sources. The symbols M1, M2,  M3, L, all stem from the Federal Source, However, did you see the 'assets included' under that table? For example, the symbol M1 -  'currency plus demand deposits, traveler's checks, and other checkable deposits'; the symbol L - 'M3 plus other liquid assets such as saving bonds and short-term Treasury securities'. Do you know what that mean?

OKey,.. Let me tell ya something. Symbols usually come from first letter, for example. aggregate demand(AD), gross domestic production(GDP). Unless the article defined these symbol meanings from some authorized sources, we can regard them as that meaning temperately. Otherwise, perhaps not...(As I stongly suggested)

If you have Mankiw english book, (macro-economics, fourth edition), turn to page 40, Here, 'L' stands for Labour. Undoubtedly, It is easy to be confused, if symbols (or be more specific to say, abbreviations) just occur suddenly. Furthermore, I knew 'L' could represent liquidity as well. So, are you catching what I mean?

                                                          Regards,

                                                          叮叮当当

[此贴子已经被作者于2008-2-13 12:24:36编辑过]

以下是引用叮叮当当在2008-2-13 8:44:00的发言：Furthermore, I knew 'L' could represent liquidity as well

If you had known a "LM-curve", you could have known what "L" represents.

以下是引用叮叮当当在2008-2-13 8:44:00的发言：Symbols usually come from first letter, for example. aggregate demand(AD), gross domestic production(GDP). Unless the article defined these symbol meanings from some authorized sources, we can regard them as that meaning temperately.

This question you talked about is trivial

I am glad to see there are so many different voices about this question "whether credit card is money"? But I also feel a little bit disappointed when someone tried to arugue with me about what "definition" is.

Without definition, you can say anything that has value is "money". You can turn a house into money by selling it. You can sell your kidney and get money. The definiton and thus  the measurement of money was created for its role in affecting economic variables such as price/inflation. Depends on what schools (Keynes, Classical,Real Business Cycle, etc) you believe, money can affect economic activities in the short run and/or in the long run. If your argument is focusd on whether the asset side or liability side is more important, this is another different issue. Please read Bernanke's AER paper (88' or 89')for reference.

I am going to shut up here and let you youngsters continue your debate.

Have a happy Chinaese new year to everyone.

Chao!

以下是引用waterhorse在2008-2-13 11:53:00的发言：

I am glad to see there are so many different voices about this question "whether credit card is money"? But I also feel a little bit disappointed when someone tried to arugue with me about what "definition" is.

Without definition, you can say anything that has value is "money". You can turn a house into money by selling it. You can sell your kidney and get money. The definiton and thus  the measurement of money was created for its role in affecting economic variables such as price/inflation. Depends on what schools (Keynes, Classical,Real Business Cycle, etc) you believe, money can affect economic activities in the short run and/or in the long run. If your argument is focusd on whether the asset side or liability side is more important, this is another different issue. Please read Bernanke's AER paper (88' or 89')for reference.

I am going to shut up here and let you youngsters continue your debate.

Have a happy Chinaese new year to everyone.

Chao!

I am really too sad, you know, I try to understand what you are talking about, but I felt too disappointed..

My own opinion has already given, here you can see it again.(As I highlighted in Blue before) 

It is debatable whether it will be regarded as a form of money, Currently, economically, it is not a form of money, because credit card can not be used so wide as money itself.

Those symbols with definations are my mistakes, Because I am trying to tell you, and am wanting you to understand, symbols such as  'M', 'L', can't use randomly. If you study abroad, you will meet lots of troubles due to uncaring. Just a warm tip, but... Maybe I need to be cold here.

Anyway, It's all right. You have your choice.