楼主: jasonbig
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(原创) 中国股市模型应用系列探讨: CAPM错了,还是市场错了?----Jason金融投资教室 [推广有奖]

21
lshi018 发表于 2005-9-6 06:09:00

不要动不动就拿名家的大作来压人,自己理解里内涵才是真的

什么叫MEAN-REVERSION,MEAN-REVERSION说就是有趋势,今年高,明年低,如果股价有趋势了,就是可以用技术分析,高的时候卖,低的时候买。这本身就是和MARK-EFFICIENCY的冲突。你都知道WEAK -FORM都不可以用技术分析。那你觉得MEAN-REVERISON和FAME的EFFICIENT MARKET HYPOTHESIS里的MARKET EFFICIENY是一个意思?

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22
chutru 发表于 2005-9-6 13:55:00

The mean reversion may be interpreted as the mean-reverting of the fundamental itself. So mean reverting does not necessary lead to inefficiency. Although many behavirists took it as anomaly, many others, expecially Fama, did not take it as inefficient market.

Actually I don't know what you mean by pure weak form. For the weak form, since price contain all the information about past prices, thus the technical analysis(which analyzes past prices only) is useless.

23
chutru 发表于 2005-9-6 13:57:00
Techinical analysis is to analyze the past prices trend, not to analyze other information.

24
lshi018 发表于 2005-9-6 14:11:00
以下是引用chutru在2005-9-6 13:55:43的发言:

The mean reversion may be interpreted as the mean-reverting of the fundamental itself. So mean reverting does not necessary lead to inefficiency. Although many behavirists took it as anomaly, many others, expecially Fama, did not take it as inefficient market.

Actually I don't know what you mean by pure weak form. For the weak form, since price contain all the information about past prices, thus the technical analysis(which analyzes past prices only) is useless.

FAMA不认为MEAN -REVERSION,这是他自己解释自己的理论,每个理论家都用自己的想法。我前边说了,可以这么解释,但是不要以为MEAN-REVERSION就是MARKET-EFFICIENCY的表现了。ANMOALY是什么东西,就是无法用理论解释的。

PURE WEAK-FORM 就是PRICE直接跳到NEW INFORMATION 的PRICE上,这就是PURE,如果不是,那就可以用技术分析。说个例子

T=0 ANNOUNCEMENT DAY, T=1的时候如果PRICE跳到应该的价格,这就是WEAK-FORM对吧,但是T=100的时候条到应该的价格也是WEAK-FORM,只要价格是直接跳的,这就是PURE。所以说WEAK-FORM不可以用技术分析。但是PURE -WEAK FORM是不可能的,去看看SEMI-STRONG就明白了。只有PURE WEAK FORM才不可以用技术分析。任何其他形式的WEAK-FORM全可以用技术分析

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25
lshi018 发表于 2005-9-6 14:18:00

你复制的这段话说的很清楚了,Although many behavirists took it as anomaly, many others, expecially Fama, did not take it as inefficient market.干吗不去想想为什么有这个说法。FAMA认为POST ANNOUNCEMENT MEAN REVERSION是正常的,比如 DAY 1, +10,DAY 2 -8 , DAY 3 +6, 一直回到零,因为MARKET本身需要对INFORMATION吸收,但是趋势是归0,就可以说是MEAN-REVERSION和MARKET-EFFICIENCY不冲突,我也同意这点。但是首先这里说的是长期,其次,MEAN-REVERSION本身就是和RANDOM WALK冲突的,这就是定义。MEAN-REVERSION有多种,有趋势归0的,有趋势不变的,象SIN函数,还有发散的。不要以为MEAN-REVERSION本身就是MARKET-EFFICIENCY,只有归0的才可以说明MARKET-EFFICIENCY,但是也只是可以解释,并不说就一定对了。

很多事情不是光象定义那么简单,为什么总是不求甚解

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26
lshi018 发表于 2005-9-6 14:36:00
以下是引用chutru在2005-9-6 13:55:43的发言:

The mean reversion may be interpreted as the mean-reverting of the fundamental itself. So mean reverting does not necessary lead to inefficiency. Although many behavirists took it as anomaly, many others, expecially Fama, did not take it as inefficient market.

Actually I don't know what you mean by pure weak form. For the weak form, since price contain all the information about past prices, thus the technical analysis(which analyzes past prices only) is useless.

你应该自己先看看这段话的意思,

关于PURE WEAK-FORM我在解释一下,首先价格变化比信息慢,如果是PURE,那么虽然价格是慢的,但是一步到位。在中间这个时间差(信息和价格变动)里,价格还是RANDOM WALK,所以没法用技术分析,因为是RANDOM WALK。但是这个是不可能。SEMI-STRONG的INFORMATION都有一个RELASE的过程。如果说价格是有趋势的反映新的信息的,就算一个投资者不知道这个新信息,照样可以用技术分析来赚钱(当然赚的少点)

WEAK-FORM EFFICIENCY HYPOTHESIS的招眼点是信息和价格变动的时间差。如果以这个角度看的话,当然可以用PURE WEAK-FORM这个ASSUMPTION。但是PURE是没可能的,比SEMI-STORNG还没可能。MARKET 永远不会是PURE- WEAK FORM

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27
siemens_wo 发表于 2005-9-6 23:13:00

CHU博士,米国的洪水爽吗.....

呵呵,今天偶然剽了一眼报纸,全无同情心可言.....

You don\'t live longer. It just seems longer.

28
chutru 发表于 2005-9-7 00:52:00
洪水离我很遥远,我在北部, 洪水在南部。 多谢关心。

29
chutru 发表于 2005-9-7 00:58:00

I still don't understand what you mean by pure weak form. What I know is that the information sets that are relevant in weak form is only the past price,

while the technical analysis is also trying to using past prices only to exploit abnormal return. If weak form efficiency holds, then the current price reflects all the information contained in past prices, thus technical analysis is useless.

If the only information is price, then there is no announcement date.

I think you probably misundertaood technical analysis, what you mean by technical analysis is to use other information other than past prices to exploit the abnormal return.

30
lshi018 发表于 2005-9-7 06:52:00

我已经说了,就算不知道新的INFORMATION,如果NEW INFOMATION RELEASE 是有过程的,一样可以用技术分析,技术分析的关键是趋势,如果NEW INFORMAION RELEASE有过程,比如是DAY 1 涨1, DAY 2 涨2,从一定程度上我可以推测出DAY 3,涨3,这个就是技术分析(就算我不NEW INFORMAION,也不知道NEW INFORMAION到底值多少在涨幅),不过,说实话,我不相信技术分析的。

只有PURE WEAK-FORM,比如说应该涨10是NEW INFORMAION的价值, 除非是股价一下跳了10。这样是不可以用技术分析(在不知道新消息的前提下,技术分析失效),但是这个是不可能的,SEMI-STRONG EFFICIENCY也有PURE和不PURE之分,这么说吧,如果在ANNOUNCEMENT DAY 之前,股价都是RANDOM WALK,就在ANNOUNCEMENT 一瞬间涨上去了,这个就是PURE,对WEAK FORM也一样(只不过是信息和涨有时间差了),目前真正研究的不是 PURE FORM EFFICIENCY(因为是不可能的)

这样吧,你认为技术分析在WEAK FORM失效了,你来解释一下为什么(既然你可以打中文,关键的地方请不要用英文,让更多的人明白问题对讨论更有意义)。你真的理解了WEAK FORM定义里的OLD INFORMAION,NEW INFORMAION, RANDOM WALK, PIRCE CONTAINDED INFOMATION的意义了吗(这个是关键,到底时间和信息的先后关系)

我不保证我说的都对,但是大家可以讨论,不要轻易下结论谁对谁错。你前边的话说的太绝对了,略带攻击性。

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