“剥削”的经济学定义的新表述

clm0600 发表于 2013-7-1 10:16
1.有工会：但当今的中国没有。
2.有福利，带薪年假：当今中国的农民工也没有。
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一个新卖的奴隶很满足于新的主人给他的生活待遇，他逢人便说，新的主人没有奴役我。

冷眼老克 发表于 2013-7-1 10:21
“剥削”是一种对人权的侵犯。把劳动力当成生产工具的物来看待的雇佣劳动制侵犯了工人发展个人生产力的权 ...

回答得不得要领。如果劳动力等于劳动者本身，那么人类就不会有劳动成果创造了，因为劳动成果都是用劳动力，也是用人身交换的结果了，事实上完全并非如此。劳动力虽然发自人身，但劳动力与人身具有本质区别。劳动力是可以通过身外之物置换，不断补充再生。如同发电厂与电力，发电厂不等于电力；大炮与炮弹，大炮不等于炮弹。旧时艺人还会区分“卖艺不卖身”，怎么专司研究的文人连这点道理都不懂。

此外，之所以说经济领域不存在剥削，是因为剥削与否在于公平与否，而公平与否是根据双方标准判断的事，与第三方无关。既然是判断的事，那么就涉及人所处的地位平等与否、有否判断权利的事，也就最终涉及人的政治地位权利地位，政治学上的意义了，与经济现象无关。经济现象只是表象，深层次的根源还是政治，是本质原因。

he_zr 发表于 2013-7-1 10:53
回答得不得要领。如果劳动力等于劳动者本身，那么人类就不会有劳动成果创造了，因为劳动成果都是用劳动力 ...

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书目来源：斯坦福哲学百科 http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/exploitation/

是的，这个概念涉及哲学、经济、伦理等太多方面了，随便找了个书目就这么多，还不乏大家。这么大的题目真不是论坛上一句两句能说清的，我还是老实点去读paper吧。

he_zr 发表于 2013-7-1 10:53
回答得不得要领。如果劳动力等于劳动者本身，那么人类就不会有劳动成果创造了，因为劳动成果都是用劳动力 ...

你不认为工人出卖给资本家的标的物不是限定在人的体力和智力的范围之内吗？但劳动力作为人身体的机能，一种属性，能离开人的身体存在吗？说劳动力当成商品出卖不就是以工人的人身自由在契约规定的时间内的丧失为条件吗？你知道劳动力不是人身体本身这是值得肯定的。但你不知道作为劳动力的人是劳动力和人身的统一，就未免有点短视了。在我的言谈中，作为人的体力和智力的劳动力和作为劳动力的人，这二者之间是分得清清楚楚的。在这一点上想钻空子有点难。
另外，我倒要听听你说说工人和资本家之间在订立劳动契约时，他们各自的政治地位是怎样保证他们之间交易的平等和公平的？

冷眼老克 发表于 2013-7-1 12:02
你不认为工人出卖给资本家的标的物不是限定在人的体力和智力的范围之内吗？但劳动力作为人身体的机能，一 ...

什么“人身的统一”，这种大二空泛的言词等于什么也没说，等下人畜之间还是生命的统一，宇宙的统一，人畜就无需区分了。靠这种哲学语言解释现实来蒙混过关，倒是实实在在的在企图钻空子。对于这一点，我不得不说那位600倒是“慧眼识珠”。

无论雇佣行为还是契约行为，都是政治地位权利地位皆平等的产物，劳资关系也就是平等的公民关系，合作生产就是平等自由自愿的民事活动。前复已经说明，所谓公不公平由两个地位平等，自由自愿当事人之间的标准评判，任何第三方的标准是在充当上帝下派到判官。双方所得实物多少只是表象，双方拥有什么政治地位和条件基础的主观价值判断才是根本。

clm0600 发表于 2013-7-1 12:09
说劳动力当成商品出卖不就是以工人的人身自由在契约规定的时间内的丧失为条件吗？
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不要 ...

别人不能区别作为劳动力的人和作为体力与脑力之和的劳动力也就算了。你要是也区别不了这二者之间的差别，那就完全是要逞口舌之快了。