萨繆尔森的资本品收益率兼论天知地知的愚蠢

天知地知 发表于 2019-1-24 13:51
机器，作为商品的价格，就是我们通常能看到的交换价格。
而当它作为资本被投资的时候，其作为资本的价格 ...

机器，作为商品的价格，就是我们通常能看到的交换价格。
而当它作为资本被投资的时候，其作为资本的价格就是资本的报酬——利息。

简单的说机器的价格是利息，

sdhb 发表于 2019-1-24 13:54
你自己不懂。投资的收益是利润。企业投资，其产生的收益是利润，不是利息。生产工具的价值在下降，哪有利 ...

利润不过是一种随着企业经营状况而浮动的利息罢了。

生产工具的价值在下降，哪来的利润？只能是剥削劳动者了，哈哈。

sdhb 发表于 2019-1-24 13:59
“当它作为资本被投资的时候，”
-----------------------------------
你搞错了。是企业投资，购买资本 ...

骑驴找驴，利润就是浮动的利息。

zhuxiang 发表于 2019-1-24 14:00
机器，作为商品的价格，就是我们通常能看到的交换价格。
而当它作为资本被投资的时候，其作为资本的价格 ...

简单的说机器的价格是利息，
----
辩论不过就开始栽赃陷害了。

机器的投资价格或资本价格是利息。

天知地知 发表于 2019-1-24 14:03
骑驴找驴，利润就是浮动的利息。

谁告诉你，利润就是浮动的利息？

zhuxiang 发表于 2019-1-24 13:56
企业家要素也是劳动力。

企业家要素不是劳动力（labor）。 企业家要素指的是企业家把其它3个要素组合起来进行生产。

sdhb 发表于 2019-1-24 14:04
企业家要素不是劳动力（labor）。 企业家要素指的是企业家把其它3个要素组合起来进行生产。

企业家是拿工资的，既然是拿工资的就是雇佣劳动者。

sdhb 发表于 2019-1-24 13:59
“当它作为资本被投资的时候，”
-----------------------------------
你搞错了。是企业投资，购买资本 ...

在生产资料还没有和劳动力结合的时候，生产资料并不是资本，因为它并没有在生产产品中发挥作用。

zhuxiang 发表于 2019-1-24 14:06
企业家是拿工资的，既然是拿工资的就是雇佣劳动者。

Factors of production 生产要素

The first factor of production is land, but this includes any natural resource used to produce goods and services. This includes not just land, but anything that comes from the land. Some common land or natural resources are water, oil, copper, natural gas, coal, and forests. Land resources are the raw materials in the production process. These resources can be renewable, such as forests, or nonrenewable such as oil or natural gas. The income that resource owners earn in return for land resources is called rent.

The second factor of production is labor. Labor is the effort that people contribute to the production of goods and services. Labor resources include the work done by the waiter who brings your food at a local restaurant as well as the engineer who designed the bus that transports you to school. It includes an artist's creation of a painting as well as the work of the pilot flying the airplane overhead. If you have ever been paid for a job, you have contributed labor resources to the production of goods or services. The income earned by labor resources is called wages and is the largest source of income for most people.

The third factor of production is capital. Think of capital as the machinery, tools and buildings humans use to produce goods and services. Some common examples of capital include hammers, forklifts, conveyer belts, computers, and delivery vans. Capital differs based on the worker and the type of work being done. For example, a doctor may use a stethoscope and an examination room to provide medical services. Your teacher may use textbooks, desks, and a whiteboard to produce education services. The income earned by owners of capital resources is interest.

The fourth factor of production is entrepreneurship. An entrepreneur is a person who combines the other factors of production - land, labor, and capital - to earn a profit. The most successful entrepreneurs are innovators who find new ways produce goods and services or who develop new goods and services to bring to market. Without the entrepreneur combining land, labor, and capital in new ways, many of the innovations we see around us would not exist. Think of the entrepreneurship of Henry Ford or Bill Gates. Entrepreneurs are a vital engine of economic growth helping to build some of the largest firms in the world as well as some of the small businesses in your neighborhood. Entrepreneurs thrive in economies where they have the freedom to start businesses and buy resources freely. The payment to entrepreneurship is profit.

You will notice that I did not include money as a factor of production. You might ask, isn't money a type of capital? Money is not capital as economists define capital because it is not a productive resource. While money can be used to buy capital, it is the capital good (things such as machinery and tools) that is used to produce goods and services. When was the last time you saw a carpenter pounding a nail with a five dollar bill or a warehouse foreman lifting a pallet with a 20 dollar bill? Money merely facilitates trade, but it is not in itself a productive resource.

Remember, goods and services are scarce because the factors of production used to produce them are scarce. In case you have forgotten, scarcity is described as limited quantities of resources to meet unlimited wants. Consider a pair of denim blue jeans. The denim is made of cotton, grown on the land. The land and water used to grow the cotton is limited and could have been used to grow a variety of different crops. The workers who cut and sewed the denim in the factory are limited labor resources who could have been producing other goods or services in the economy. The machines and the factory used to produce the jeans are limited capital resources that could have been used to produce other goods. This scarcity of resources means that producing some goods and services leaves other goods and services unproduced.

美联储 St Louis 分行

https://www.stlouisfed.org/educa ... ctors-of-production

zhuxiang 发表于 2019-1-24 14:06
企业家是拿工资的，既然是拿工资的就是雇佣劳动者。

私企的企业家总的来说是公司股东。其主要收入来源是公司的利润和公司价值的增加。